I have spent most of my adult life in full-time service.  I am an elder, currently serving in a foreign language congregation.  John's story is my story.  He said it so well.  Day by day, hour by hour--endurance.  That is my life.  I am happy, but lonely.  Jehovah supports me.  I am grateful.  The alternative is unthinkable.  Thanks for this site.

hi guys,i was wondering the other day,what the age range is of those who feel challenged in this way.I was thinking particularly of older bros and sisters,how did they cope?would they even know about this site?It would be interesting to hear from them,

afterall we have Pauls words "that is what some of you were",the

challenge is as old as time.We are not new!alone!i wager.

a

Hi,been away for awhile,just everyday congregation life,which is such a support. Thanx phil again for sending me the password again! Cheers, a.

Hi Pete

I myself am not from Manchester but I do a few people there. Get in contact if you want to.

Nice to find a place to talk and encourage my brothers.  It does get lonely in your head!

Why thank you Ma'am! One does one's poor best.......

Phil,

Beautiful quotes and beautifully applied.  My dear sweet brothers and sisters, you are all miracles.

Agape,

Becky

Hi 'Dying Inside'

I am bi. I am married. I have kids. I spoke to my wife very openly before we were married. Drop me an email if you want to talk more. Dave

"dying inside", welcome. I hope you will find lots of support and encouragement.

With "No man is an island" You quote John Donne (Elizabethan poet), Meditation 17.

As it happens, that powerful Meditation is referred to in one of the threads in the Discussion Forum of this site.  It makes the point that humans are not really meant to live in isolation, and that we are all part of the same humanity.  Also that we can learn from adversity.  After an introduction about the ringing of the 'passing bell' (rung when someone has died), we have

And

(Bearing in mind the comments in today's Watchtower study however - that God is not the author of our misfortunes, James 1:13).

You are not an island, "dying inside". You are involved with us all and we with you for we are humanity together. And we will not see you washed away, we will not suffer ourselves to be diminished by the loss of you.

Feel free to write privately, if there is anything you wish to  discuss - you may be assured of discretion. And feel free also to post again in this Guestbook.

im bi and would love to be married , but no sister would want me if she knew the truth and it would be a lie not to tell her. i want kids , now im alone and keep all the friends at a distance, no one knows why. this is the first i have said these words to anyone in my life ,i guess the saying of no man is an island was wrong ,but this one is sinking.  just found your site tonight i will return.                                   j

Phil, the new site layout looks great. The site has been most helpful for me in sorting through my situation as a brother with a homosexual orientation. Keep up the fine work!

Troy

Re : Gioele, Davey, H and his very interesting note on the psychological nature of homosexuality. There is much that could be expanded on but what I must comment on is this. Our brain does have a beautiful plasticity and can change. Many of us who are gay have developed deep paths in our neuron channels that direct our thoughts and actions. BUT these can be changed.

Davey mentioned in passing something that is key, and that is Love. Love for Jehovah is the key to changing these path ways. Our brain has the capacity for change but it needs motivation and Love is the over-riding factor that can change us.

If you read experiences of those who have come into the truth, where leading a gay lifestyle, and have changed - the key is there love for Jehovah. They developed such a love that they wanted to change and love was the motivation that caused the synapsis' to re-program or re-route. They may still struggle but the 'force actuating their mind' had been changed. They are now no longer slave to the 'Gay' force actuting their mind.

WE CAN ALL DO THIS. We all struggle - as I do everyday - but it can be done.

We have to keep away from gay influence such as gay porn, gay imagery on tv etc, and on refocus our minds when focusing on someone we are attracted to of the same sex - we all do it when we are struggling!

We need to instead develop our love for Jehovah by reading the bible daily and thinking of jehovah's qualities. Read 'Draw close to Jehovah' and meditate upon it.

Stop perving on the brothers in the kingsdom hall!

Seriously, only by developing a love for Jehovah can we be motivated to want to change, have his holy spirit to help us change and this love will re-program our brains. It will not be perfect but it is the only way to go.

If we hang around and do not seriously become involved in serving Jehovah then really we are kidding ourselves and can expect to only go backwards.

What do we really want?

Hi Ivan,you are welcome.be sure that here you will find a lot of support end encouragment.i know is emazing to discover that so many bro. and sist. are coping the same thorn.

talk to you soon

take care

Luca

hi, i just discovered this site and to say the truth in the begining i could not believe that there were so many others j.w. with my same feelings. I am italian and i decided to come back to my home town Rome, when i decided to become a j.w., before i lived in London.

There i tryed all i could to enjoy my self but even it was cool i was missing something, and i understud that when i started a bible study, i though i was going to be different (and untill one point it worked) but i'm still attract to men,and many times i get depressed, now i know that others feel the same and it would be nice to talk to them. 

I look foreword to exchange encouragement.

with cristian love ....Ivan       ( p.s. sorry for my bad written english.)

On further consderation, I think the person who made the comment about a "forum for disfellowshipped" must have been referring to the "Common Bond" sites, and not to witnesses.plus.com (or its predecessor gaywitness).

The Common Bond sites do seem to be mainly for ex-witnesses, and if the commentator had looked at this site at all, I don't see how he could possibly think it was for disfellowshipped ones.

A case of mistaken identity, I think.

This is emphatically not a "forum for disfellowshipped".

There are NO disfellowshipped persons in the Forum.

Very occasionally, I do get an email from a person who is disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation (since an email address is shown on the Home Page).  The way I respond is similar to how I would respond if approached by a disfellowshipped person in the Ministry or on the street, i.e:

If it appears to be a genuine enquiry by one wishing to return to the congregation, I explain kindly that the elders in their own local congregation will assist them, that that is where they should go, and that I cannot enter into spiritual fellowhip with them by email or other means in the meantime.

If it appears to be an approach by someone simply trying to make trouble or who is not interested in a return to the Bible's standards, I do not respond.

I am at a loss as to how anyone who has paid even the slightest attention to any part of this site could think it a "forum for disfellowshipped". 

Perhaps those who have expressed such an ill-informed opinion fall into that unfortunate category of person described at Proverbs 18:13.

Dear Brothers,

I was on this site a long time ago. Next- by my own problems I'm lost password to Forum, and friendship with a few persons.

I am trying dealing with my feeling alone- because all people around me dont accepting this site- and call this place 'forum for disfellowshipped', but I lost all my power to battle. Last time I think about suicide even- only my children and wife is reason that I am alive still.

I said about my heart to one elder in my actually congregation. He try help me- how he can do it best.

But I feel still like 'not sissy (I hate this word!) and not men both. I feel like 'nothing'- I am not JW, not normally mankind.

Please about short email especially this brothers which know and remember me from my previous 'presence'.

Sorry for my 'english'- I am wait for any 'talk' from "Phil" for now. I cannot to explain better what I feel and all situation.

I wish you all 'to much true friends around' and success in the battle with yourself,

Scottish Robbie (for now)

The "gaywitness" website's contents have moved to a brand new website!  http://www.witnesses.plus.com

Wow Phil,

     After reading the recent posts from A.H. and others, but before you did your most recent , I actually looked up and read the Scriptures in Luke you referenced. 

(Luke 15:1-10) 15 Now all the tax collectors and the sinners kept drawing near to him to hear him. ² Consequently both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering, saying: "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them." ³ Then he spoke this illustration to them, saying: ⁴ "What man of YOU with a hundred sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the ninety-nine behind in the wilderness and go for the lost one until he finds it? ⁵ And when he has found it he puts it upon his shoulders and rejoices. ⁶ And when he gets home he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost.’ ⁷ I tell YOU that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance. ⁸ "Or what woman with ten drachma coins, if she loses one drachma coin, does not light a lamp and sweep her house and search carefully until she finds it? ⁹ And when she has found it she calls the women who are her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found the drachma coin that I lost.’ ¹⁰ Thus, I tell YOU, joy arises among the angels of God over one sinner that repents."

        My unbaptized 18 year old daughter is living a lesbian life right now.  Her sisters and I, however, haven't given up hope that she will return to her Christian identity.  A.H. had mentioned corresponding with other strugglers.  I may not have same sex attraction, but I have been working hard to understand and empathize for the past year and one half and even before my daughter manifested, because of tendencies I saw in her since age 3.  Phil has my permission to give A.H. my email address.

Christian regards,

Becky

Sites such as this can hopefully be a small source of encouragement.  But they never be, and should never aspire to be, any kind of substitute for regular association with the Christian Congregation.

Psalm 133:1,3 tells us

"How good and how pleasant it is from brothers to dwell together in unity!........

It is like the dew of Hermon

That is descending upon the mountains of Zion.

For there Jehovah commanded the blessing to be,

Even life to time indefinite."

Today the place where God "commands the blessing to be" is in association with His son's congregation.  The apostle Paul was inspired to write in his letter to the Hebrew Christians that they should not forsake gathering together. Hebrews 10:24,25. The Jerusalem Bible renders this as "Do not stay away from the meetings".

The gospel of John records Christ as saying (John 14:15) "If you love me you will observe my commandments" and, at v21 "He that has my commandments and observes them, that one is he who loves me. In turn he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will plainly show myself to him".

And in v23 "If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him".

A warm and kind article in The Watchtower of May 1 1982 affords much encouragement to any who have drifted from Christ's congregation. It is entitled Return To The Shepherd of Your Souls.  It would be neither appropriate nor legal to reproduce that article here in its entirety, but it may be appropriate just to quote the beginning:

"TWO heartwarming parables of Jesus describe God’s intense concern for those who are still his people but who have strayed. Just imagine the anguish of the shepherd who leaves the flock of 99 and searches in the wilderness for the lost sheep "until he finds it." Or consider the earnestness of the woman who loses the drachma coin, perhaps part of a priceless set. She spares no effort to find it—lighting a lamp and sweeping her entire house "until she finds it." And what rejoicing upon the recovery!—Luke 15:4-10.

I recently posted, but failed to add, that after being disfellowshipped, I did come back and was reinstated in 2002. The congregation (my firends)was not as accepting of me comming back as i hoped, and none of my friends talked to me. I felt alone, and thus left (stupidly) again. I always used to look down on people like me, being so good in the truth, to THIS! It just goes to show that no matter how strong you think you are....YOU CAN FALL, just like everyone else. I felt the need to post again, letting you know i am NOT disfellowshiped right now, I just simply left the congregation. I wanted to say this, becasue i welcome and hope that maybe i will be able to have discussions with even witnesses, who are going thru this, and did not want you to NOT talk to me if i was disfellowshiped. May i add that Jehovah is the most profound thing on my mind daily. He is the first person i think of in the morning, and the last before bed. He still is my best friend, and wish to reagain FULL friendship with him, just seem to have lost my way. Phill please add a click to my post(if it doesnt bother your concience) so if others would like, they can email me. Please do not look down upon me because of my situation, as i would like to again one day hopefully soon, be considered a 'sister'.

Deep christian love for you all.

Wow, this site, is like an answer to my prayers. I have been away from the christian congregation since 2003, and have struggled with the feelings i have for some time now. I as many young witnesses do, married young at 18. But since I married for the wrong reasons, it didnt last, and we both got disfellowshipped. He now is back, and i wish him well. I am currently in a 'lesbian' relationship, and it feels so right, altho I KNOW it is SOOO wrong. Being raised in the truth, I was such a strong pillar and an example for all the younger ones, and they are ALL still in the truth except me! My mom always sends me articles and scriptures that are much incouragement, but this site brings me so much encouragement words cannot express. I dont feel like i am alone in this struggle. I now know that it is possible to have these feelings and remain fatihful to Jehovah. I think about Jehovah day in and day out, and the truth hasnt left me no matter what i do, it is like a light in front of my face, saying "hey wake up! Come back home!". I pray everyday for Jehovah to help me to have the strength to HATE what is bad. But it doesnt feel bad? Make sence? Its hard to fathom something that feels soo right, to be sooo wrong. In fact detestible. To be honest with you I think sex with boys is..well..gross...no offence..lol. But thats Jehovahs way, and thats what we need to retrain our minds to think. I'm trying every day to be able to have the strength to change my situation, and come back to Jehovahs protective organaization. Altho my girlfriend knows my beleifs, i feel like a hypocrite when i try to share the truth with her, casue i'm committing the grossest sin. I feel trapped, altho i know its my own stupidity that got me in this situation. I just hope Jehovah wont give up on me, as I long for the truth like a hunger pain that wont go away...Its encouraging to know that this is common, even amongst elders, and I hope one day to see each and every one of you in the paradise. Please keep this site going, it WILL change the lives of honest hearted ones, and give them hope that if others do it, so can we!

Oh com on B.W.

You make it sound like as children we are all locked in our rooms and forced  to read our bibles.

Of course there is a lot of male/female bonding, among ourselves for the most part.  What is wrong with that? I am part of a cong. that has all kinds of recreational activities and i cannot see how, not associating with the world in any extensive manner could stunt a child's emotional or mental growth.

In any case as Phil says, homosexuality has been found more and more to be a case of something gone wrong in nature and not how one is raised or nurture.  That argument has been losing ground for quite a while now.

The gays that leave the organization, leave because it will not permit them to live the lifestyle and be a j.w. at the same time, something that most religious organizations look the other way on therefore we don`t hear of their leaving the religions of Christendom.

BW, you appear to be suggesting that:

1) Homosexual orientation is caused by "nurture" rather than "nature" - i.e. that it is a matter of upbringing rather than being biochemical and intrinsic in origin.

2) That there is a higher incidence of homosexuality among persons raised as Jehovah's Witnessses rather than in other religious or social traditions.

3) That boys raised as Witnessess are prevented from doing some "normal things of boyhood".

If you are interested in a genuine discussion of these matters, you may do so privately with me or others by email.  This Guestbook is not the place for it.

In brief response - the only one I will make in this guestbook - I will say this:

I would be interested to hear any scientific evidence you have to hand in support of 1 and 2.  I won't grace 3 with discussion here. I think it absurd, but am willing to discuss it in private if your query is genuine.

Is it possible that being raised a JW and not being allowed to participate in school sports, date girls, nor allowed to have a normal amount of male bonding with other children, coupled with the fact that you are made to be different and told so by your watchtower, do you think this plays any part in your homosexuality?

  There is an old expression "boys will be boys" but in the JW world they are prevented from doing the normal things of boyhood.  Does this seem to account for the unusually high amount of gays who end up leaving your organization?

It seems to me this could set your children up for alot of distance issues with other boys, and cause them to doubt their sexuality.

Antonio-

¿De donde eres? Y, ¿cuanto tiempo llevas en la verdad? Soy testigo que vive en los EEUU. Cuidate.

Ri

Hallo broeders,

Ik ben op zoek naar Nederlandse broeders om me te mns'en en mijn kennisen kring uit te breiden. Ik ben sinds 4 jaar gedoopt. Ben 35 jaar en zoals het ook jullie ervaring waarschijnlijk wil ik volharden maar is het niet altijd makkelijk in dit oude samenstel. De natuur is sterker dan de leer en dat merken we maar al te vaak om ons heen. In de overtuiging dat de Schepper met ons meeleeft en mijn genegenhied voor hem, is mijn anker in deze woelige tijden. Ik hoop via deze site aanmoediging te vinden en geven. Hartelijke groeten je broeder Charlie.   

Deseo conocer otros testigos.

Phil,

Great to hear from you as well. Keep up the great work!

NQ, how spooky, I was thinking about you this very day, and wondering how you were getting on! (I think because of Hurthsette's recent postings.  There are not that many sisters on the sites).  Good to hear from you!

Luca, caro fratello, benvenuto!

It has been a while since I've posted. But how wonderful to see so many still holding fast! Someone recently sent me info on a recent talk given in their congregation. It's a little long but I'm sure you will find it encouraging as you apply it to your personal circumstances.

What comes to mind when you think of Job's wife. Most people think of her telling Job to curse god and die. Why wasn't she rebuked with the three so-called comforters? It was brought out that Job's wife was tired...... Probably more tired that you can imagine.

Think of this:

When the messengers told Job that he had lost all his livestock,
Job's wife lost hers too.
When Job was told that he had lost all his land and material goods,
Job's wife lost hers too.
When the messengers told Job that he had lost all his children,
Job's wife lost hers too.

The children that you carried for 9 months, bonded with as you breast-fed each and everyone of them, watched them grow up and stand tall, only to lose them all at once violently .
Was she tired? ...Yes!
Then, to make matters worse, (if they could get any worse),
Your husband mysteriously and suddenly develops huge boils all over his body that are open and oozing pus and stink.
You watch as the man you love, the father of your children, cracks a pottery jar and begins to dig and scratch himself in order to alleviate some of the pain, but to no avail.
This man, who has been all that to you, is staying away because his breath is so bad that no one can stand it. And you can only sit by helpless, without any explanation for anything. Do you want to continue to see him suffer or would you too want him to die? Most of us would want a loved one out of their misery. So when Job's wife said curse God and die, she wasn't being disloyal to Jehovah, she wanted her husband's misery to be over. It was an act of love.
She was tired!!
In the end, not only was she not reproved but, she was blessed with
everything that Job received, more children, more wealth and a healthy husband. There are times when, due to our health problems either physical, or mental, that we are not doing all that we feel that we should. Once I was in such a state. A young friend asked me if I considered Job a faithful man?
Of course, I said, "oh yes!"
Then she lovingly pointed out, that at one time, all Job could do, was sit in the dirt, and scrape his sores. That was his act of worship, proving Satan a liar. He did not lose faith.
So, next time you are being hard on yourself for circumstances beyond your control....remember the account of Job.
So we can, in spite of our circumstances, still give a reply even if we are just breathing and praying to Jehovah to get through the next minute. Whether it is physical or mental distress. We can be likened to Job, only able to scrape his sores and praying to get through this trial, yet we are still doing what Jehovah has asked us to do.
Give him a reply to Satan.
So when we get tired and sick, lets not beat ourselves up and think we are unworthy.

i discovered this web site recently,and i have really thank phil for this.i am 28yo,i am from italy(very difficoult place to live for who like us have this problem du to the culture)i grow in a fantastic spiritual family,that set for me an excelent exanple to follow.

But unfortunatedly they do not know about my problem,about my sufferings,and i do not have the courage to speak with them.

moreover in this period i realized that i can not win this battle alone,really i would like to find some encouragement here and the possibility to speak freely about this think.i need it.

i hope to hear from you soon

 with brotherly love luca

hi from italy

Darren I am rather surprised to hear that you have been told that you should neither go away on your own nor with a friend. If it comes to that, can you stay at home alone? 

There are not hard and fast rules in this matter. You have to use discretion and look to your safety and equanimity.  It seems odd, I must say, if others are seeking to establish "rules" which "go beyond the things written".  That way, madness lies, and you will be told what colour you must paint your living room!

Respecting the person who appears to be self-centred, there is little you can do, except persevere despite your disappointment with his attitude, and hope for him that in future he may learn wisdom and maturity and may place greater value of the sincere efforts of others in his behalf.

I'm going to suggest, Darren, that we have any further discussion in the Forum rather than this Guestbook.  Most of the discussion takes place now in the Forum, and the Guestbook tends to be reserved for brief comments and introductions.

Hi All

I kind of feel a bit foolish after my sweetness and light post a few weeks ago because i now feel so miserable again and so alone.

It's really been accelorated by two factors. I had some relatives stay over the xmas period and now they have gone i'm all alone in the house. Then recently a friend who hadn't been in touch for a while but was aware of my sexuality decided to contact me. He has confided in me that he is struggling with his own sexuality. I had suspected this was the case but i've never pressured him into telling me. I really thought it was the answer to a prayer as i've been hoping to find someone nearby that i can have a drink with now and again and someone to share a little companionship with. Boy was i wrong! It seems that he's quite self satisfied and he doesn't really want much to do with me. I've been contemplating moving away to be close to my parents and he encouraged me to do so! I just feel so hurt that we have so much in common and we're both doing well in the truth yet he does't value my frienship. He won't even shake my hand. I sometimes think he despises me and that i repel him. I've always treated him with the utmost respect and i've never done anything to make him feel uncomfortable and i've been a really good friend to him but he just seems to appear in my life and then disappear again when it suits him.

Apart from that i've been faced with a dilemma about my holidays. I want to get away for a week somewhere warm but i'm in a stalemate situation. I've spoken to an elder who has agreed that it's not wise for me to go away on my own. Nor can i go away with a brother, the only option i have is to go with a group of brothers and sisters. The problem is thats just not done in my congregation and none of the young single ones have any money. It seems unfair that i can't even have a holiday because of my sexuality but thats the reality of the situation i'm in. I really wish that sexuality didn't affect so many areas of the truth, it's difficult enough just coping but with so many restrictions and do's and don'ts i sometimes feel that there's just nothing left i can do. I really hate to send miserable complaining posts but i'm sure there are others who have felt the same way as me and maybe someone can offer some help or advise.

Take care all

Luv Darran

This is just to extend a most cordial welcome to the several who have recently discovered the website! 

Hopefully you will be able to find  encouragement and support. 

Sites such as this cannot be, and are not intended to be, any kind of substitute for Christian association and fellowship in one's own local Christian Congregation.  But encouragement gleaned through such sites may prove a useful addition to the benefits of congregation association.

So welcome, all!

Dear Sister Hurthsette,

Please be assured that Sisters are just as welcome as Brothers!

There have been a few Sisters from time to time who have contributed to the Guestbooks and the Forum.  But not nearly as many as there are "gay" Brothers.  That's quite interesting and I am not sure of the reason for it. 

At any rate, it's very nice to hear from you.

Respecting your question, of course we have all wondered something like that from time to time, I am sure. 

Nothing in the Scriptures leads us to suppose that same-sex marriage was ever, or will ever be, part of the Creator's purpose for His human creatures.

We can be confident, however, that in the new world in which righteousness is to dwell, God will arrange through Christ the King for all faithful humans to be happy.

I have noticed that there mainly gay men on this web site.  But do you have space for a lesbian Jehovah's Witnesses?  We may be different but our struggle is still the same.  I pose a question to all of you to ponder with a open mind.  Do you ever think that there will come a time that Jehovah will allow us to marry?  I mean HIS mercy and understanding is more far reaching than any of us can fathom.  I know for me the "urge" is for me to get married and "live happily ever after" with a woman.  Perhaps that dream is not far fetched.  Maybe one day that will be possible.

Hello everyone... it's a miracle for me, I did not imagine that such a site could exist... till a few weeks ago...

I am currently out of the congregation, because I stopped the christian fight in march 2003... I actually listened to inappropriate councils from my comrades of school and I wanted to live in my own, without Jehovah and his people... But I can say now, almost 3 years later, that I have been wrong, it is impossible to find happiness without our Creator, Jehovah...

I want to thank you, everybody, because you have been faithful to Jehovah, even if it's not easy. Your example is a real encouragement for me to come back to the congregation...

Since a month I have been to the meetings, and I have prayed Jehovah again... I can not express how I feel, it's like returning to life! I hope that I will be able to serve Jehovah again, with his help and the help from the elders...

I am also grateful to my relatives, which have always respected biblical principles, because it's a discipline measure of Jehovah... and I hope that their prayers will be exaucered soon...

Blessings,

Romu

Ps: thank you Phil for the articles from watch tower, it was a good help for me...

Hello Dear Brothers,

I don't speak and write very well English , but I will try to post a message now. I 'am now for 4 years baptised. It's not easy to be gay and Witness. But this is the way I want to life and I trust on Jehovah he Will support. I thinks its nice to learn other gay witnesses and to hear how they stand firm in the truth. Wishing you the blessing from Jehovah. Charlie. 

Greetings everyone! Glad I found this site. Finally I can discuss this. I'm an elder and pioneer. Have been for many years. But have felt so isolated. The friends in my area would be appalled to know that my sexual orientation is totally and 100% gay. It doesn't show on the outside at all.

Take care!

Welcome back, then, Darren!

Hi All

It's been ages since i've posted on here. I think it was Feb last time when i was going through a really bad patch. I received some very kind words from others but i've not had Internet access since so a belated thank you to those that offered words of encouragement. Although i still find it very difficult to find friends in the truth i do have a small circle of friends in my cong and i'm usually out and about most weekends. Jehovah has provided well for me and although life is still difficult alone i feel like i've finally accepted my situation and started to cope with it. I suppose really it's all about relying on Jehovah, praying and staying close to the congregation...things which i've not always done in the past. I think it's difficult in the U.K. now as the pace of life seems so fast it's hard to get close to people but just one or two friends can make all the difference.

Well take care everyone and keep up the fight.

Luv Darren

You never cease to amaze me Phil!

You've done it again

I mean it.

Hello all